And then we'll see. And start seeing hello as people join. Hopefully And I have a package coming signature required that's supposed to be here within the next hour. That they're never on time. But Okay. Worst case scenario, my doorbell rings. It's five feet away, so I won't be online. Okay. We're live now. So we're seeing some attendees join, which is great. Hi, everybody. Welcome. This is our first Coveo, relevance roundtable. John, Patrick, and I are are gonna get the conversation going in a few minutes. You'll bear with us. And and, again, feel free to, raise your hand. You can even put yourself on camera by raising your hand and letting me know. We'll get started in just a few minutes. Alright. We have a few people trickling in now, John and Patrick. So I would do wanna make sure we can, maximize the attendees and make sure it's super interactive and not get us started too early. So we will give it another two minutes, everyone. Thank you. Perfect. Alright. Thank you, everyone, for joining. We'll just give it one more minute, and then we can get rolling right into the discussion. I wanna thank everyone for taking the time this afternoon. One more Zoom meeting. One more Zoom call. But I I really do think this will be a great conversation. So thank you for spending the time with us. Alright. You know what? Let's roll. John, Patrick, you ready? We've got a group of four or five here with us, and this is exciting. So this is the first of our relevance roundtable for service leaders sessions. We wanna do more of these. We can't be together at TSW, you know, in coffee lines, meeting and greeting. We're missing those personal interactions and this is our next best bet. We also have our own Coveo impact event that we've been running for the last four years and I think everyone's feeling the absence of these things, as we're living through our new normal day to day here hopefully with change on the horizon. So my name is Tracy Barca. If you don't know me, I work on the Global Marketing team here at Coveo. I'm really privileged to be here with John Ragsdale, the distinguished VP for Technology Research at the TSIA. Many of you know John, of course. We do lots of work together as partners and we're so pleased with with what we do there. So, John, thank you for spending some time with us today. And then I'm not sure many of you know, but we have Coveo customer number one, Patrick Barca, meaning, you know, he gets to the benefit of sitting inside our own Coveo org as the senior director of support. Patrick is obviously, you know, very active in the TSIA as well, so is it definitely a natural fit for this conversation. He's a busy guy, so I wanna thank you, Patrick, as well for joining us. Alright. So I'm playing slides and yep. I knew this was gonna happen awkwardly with my second screen. So please forgive me. Oh, did it go black on everybody or can you see it? Okay. Great. Yeah. I'm so sorry. This is a round table. This is supposed to be live and this is supposed to be fun. So we've gone through our introductions and I'm going to say raise your hand if you would like to, participate, I can promote you to panel. Panelists, put yourself on camera. There's definitely lots of ways to do that using the Zoom interface here with us today. So please don't be shy. We're gonna have a discussion. I've got a ton of questions for Patrick and John so look out but the idea is that definitely you know everyone here in the chat in the roundtable is welcome to participate so again raise your hand and then some next steps we have some ideas as to what we want to do next, and again we want to make sure that, you're getting the most of this session and taking advantage of both John and Patrick's expertise. So please don't be shy. The idea is absolutely that we're a community of practitioners and and experts here that are looking for some good discussion. So we recently I'm gonna jump right into it, guys. Sorry. Get ready. The we recently released a survey from Coveo. We ran with it with an agency partner and and firm around the state of customer service. A lot of us have done that. Certainly, John's an expert in this area as well, but there were some findings. And none of these, I think, will surprise us. But ultimately, you know, our customers are only willing to tolerate so much friction. And this isn't just our Coveo customers. This is a survey of thousands of customers, your customers, in fact. And seventy three percent said that they would abandon a brand after just three negative customer experiences. The inability to find information and finding conflicting offer information was really the biggest factors driving consumers to jump ship. So, John, any surprises here? I wanted your reaction to the finding survey for sure. Well, the the big shocker for me, I I've seen similar data points before about three negative experiences can cause people to abandon the brand or become inactive, you know, not a promoter or detractor for a brand. But I always assume that those were complete meltdowns with service. And when forty four percent say it's just an inability to find information, the stakes are a lot higher than than I realized. And, you know, just a couple of data points there. According to my research, sixty two percent of our members have invested in a unified search solution, which has all these analytics, but only thirteen percent are doing content gap analysis. So, you know, I'm I'm curious, those of you, and joining us today, you know, are you leveraging content gap analysis to understand what are people searching for and not finding, which can help you prioritize content creation? Because, I mean, if forty four percent of people don't find something three times and wanna leave the brand and definitely aren't gonna come back to the website again, that's that's a pretty shocking statistic. It absolutely is. So so John's post posted the question to the crowd. I'm looking at all of you and your names. Please, jump into the chat functionality. And, again, I can take you, off mute and raise your hands if you've got a a great answer there. Patrick, as as someone in the day to day, and managing our support team here at Coveo, what do you think of those findings? And and certainly what did your feedback around John's comments there? Well, I mean, they're they're extremely interesting. And, you know, I've been in support over twenty years now. And and one of the things that, to me resonates the most, and and sometimes, a lot of people don't don't see it. And I I kinda convey this with the team, you know, frequently is is around the impact that support has on this whole subscription model. Right? It's not necessarily just always about break fix. On the contrary, you have to get you have to get out of this break fix mentality. Then you have to think about the customer experience because that's really what it's all about. You have to understand what the customer's trying to accomplish and not necessarily what the issue is. Because what the issue is is just it's probably, you know, hiding something that the customer is trying to accomplish, and you want them to to get to that. So definitely from an assistant support perspective, I as I mentioned, I frequently tell our folks, we are the ones who have the most touch points with the customers on a daily basis. We are, we influence the image that, our customers have of Coveo. It's not just about the product. The product is, you know, and, you know, the product is what it does. But if the customer can't use it, if they're not successful, they will go to something else. Right? So definitely, we see it day in, day out. And when we talk about relevancy and and making it easy to interact with us, it applies, you know, whether you're in self-service, whether you're in assisted or anything else, really, because that experience needs to be the best experience ever. And what we're seeing on the consumer side, if we just think about, you know, how we act as as consumers. Because when I saw this, it made me react. It made me think about, okay, how do I react? And when I'm, you know, searching for something, let's say I go to this this supplier store, online store, and I try to search for something. And after two or three minutes, I don't find it. I revert to Google. I search, and ninety percent of the chances or the times, Amazon pops up and they have it, and I buy it on Amazon. And that is a missed opportunity. So if I do that as a consumer, those behaviors transfer over to what we see in the b to b world as well. So, definitely, you know, this this is very important to take into consideration. And the numbers are are surprising, but, you know, on the flip side, when we think about how this applies to us as consumers, you know, we act exactly the same way today. Yeah. I fine. I I was just gonna say there's a corollary data point here, and I don't know if you asked this in your survey, but I've seen it in other research studies. It also takes three positive experiences on a website to get people to make it a habit. And, you know, I talk to companies every day. I just had a call before this who said, you know, we've invested heavily in self-service, and nobody's using it. And I asked, well, what was your marketing plan? Well, they they're, you know, they just assume they're gonna stumble upon it and have a good experience. But, you know, you gotta drive them to that website, and you've gotta keep reminding them it's there. Because until they use it and have three positive experiences, it doesn't become a habit. And changing behavior is the hardest thing you can do. So, you know, it it takes three experiences to scare them away, but you're gonna have to have at least three positive experiences, to to get them back. So it it's I guess the the takeaway is you don't wanna lose them to begin with. Exactly. And and when you're, you know, when you're talking about people who are investing in self-service, a lot of people just think, hey. We're we're gonna we're gonna have this portal, and and we're gonna publish our knowledge articles. We're gonna put our documentation out there, and, you know, that's it. But as you mentioned earlier, John, people don't look at the analytics, and the analytics is key here. And that's something that, you know, I I work with with our internal teams at Coveo when they look at our our customer experience and and they say, oh, our our click through on our documents is, you know, eighty percent. So that's good. It's within our thresholds. And the the question I always have for them is click through is one thing, but it doesn't tell the story. If out of that eighty percent, seventy five percent end up logging a case, you are not relevant. Mhmm. So you can't just look at click through. You have to look at the whole customer journey, and that's where, you know, relevancy takes such importance because you can't just look at one metric and think that think that you're good because people are clicking. It's not because they're consuming that what you're presenting to them is relevant and makes sense. Yeah. Absolutely. We see people calculating deflection like that. If they clicked on an article, it means they're a deflection. And, like, well, what what if it was the worst written article that ever read and they abandoned your website and discussed. That's hardly deflection. So That's exactly where you end up with with that third last bad experience. Right? That could be the straw that broke the camel's back and took it back. And and then they go to an online forum and and try to get their answer, and it's it's not the you know, you kinda lost you you kinda lost that opportunity to keep that customer engaged with your brand and and with your own community. So definitely, it's a missed opportunity. Yeah. I I love the idea of, the, you know, how are you marketing this as a as a Barca. And it as I said, you know, I'm I'm dipping my toe in here in this conversation. I'm lucky enough to facilitate it. But, you know, how you bring them back, how you get them in to begin with, you know, that whole engagement, plan and cycle of programs. We're really leveraging some of those analytics that come from our community, come from, you know, those click throughs and the gap analysis as well to say, you know, how do we drive some great one to many programs in service of our community, in service of our users, to then get them back into the community doing self-service, learning, using the academy to train themselves, and then access the the knowledge articles that we we know are good. We're trying to create those link throughs for them as as a customer marketing organization. It's not easy. There's just there's a lot of content and to know what's right, you know, that can change. It really can change. So we got to work together as an organization to solve for it. Okay. So we wanted to do a poll and I'm hoping everyone can at least by show of hands or throw in the chat. This is, again, supposed to be fun and interactive, so please make sure. You know, John, Patrick, and I had, met earlier, and we were thinking through, you know, measurements. So John talked about content gaps specifically, but the connection between, CSAT, MPS, even customer effort scores through the journey or ultimately on a corporate or quarterly basis, what are you measuring today? And, Patrick, I wonder, do you wanna start by talking through, maybe people get comfortable and use the chat I'm really hoping they do. What you're measuring from a support perspective I can talk about from corporate and then John your expertise here around you know transactional versus, that bigger sort sort of rolled up number that typically our leadership team would look at. We can kinda dissect it a little more. Sure. I can I can kick this off? From a support perspective, like most support organizations do, we have a transactional survey that comes out, like, after a case is closed. You know, there are some work group flow rules that we don't, you know, survey, our customers too much. But in there, there's there's three concepts. The first one is a support NPS question. So we wanted we wanna determine, you know, who's our promoters, detractors, or passive based on their experience. The other is is five targeted questions, on the actual experience. And and and the the questions are very targeted towards the behaviors that we wanna drive within the support organization. So, and and those behaviors are tied to our our why statement, our purpose statement, what we wanna accomplish, but it's really around, accessibility, response, response, knowledge, overall experience, courtesy, and things like that. So it really it really, rotates over that. And for the last three months now, we've added another question, which gives us another dimension. It's the, you know, the the infamous, if I may say, customer effort score. And and from my perspective, this has kinda changed the game, for us. Because when we're talking about, you know, relevancy and things like that, you wanna be relevant not just in your self-service offering, but you your your your support team when you're in assisted, when you're in assisted situation, you wanna be relevant as well. Right? You you wanna make it easy for customers to interact with you. You wanna make it easy for them to resolve their issue. And for me, this is probably the most important metric that we're looking at, by driving behavior within the team. We want our customers when they talk to us, when they interact with us, to have a good experience and that we make it easy for them. And and, you know, we're we're not doing it now, Tracy, as you know, but in theory, you would have that customer effort question in your self-service as well. So if they found their answer or or or they're looking through whatever they they needed, whether it's training, whether it's documentation, release notes, whatnot, you wanna make it easy for them to find it. And and this is where a customer effort score comes into play. And I think it's for us at least, it's it's a game changer. Because it it it totally gives us a different perspective with the customer experience. It's not just about satisfaction anymore. Yeah. I I I agree. I think effort in the self-service journey especially and then figuring outright fit for those other measurements, I think, is part of the maturity as we are more digital in those experiences with our customers. Benty, I I apologize if I didn't say your name correctly, but you mentioned that you send customers a transactional case closed survey. So similar to what Patrick described here, CES and CSAT with the overall experience of the support engineer. CES is our key measure of success. And if you don't mind, I'd love to, unmute you if you could. And I I would just wanna ask you a question about who in your leadership team cares about that number and where does it get talked about in your organization. Would you be, okay with that? Absolutely. So hi, everybody. Let's see if I can I wonder if I can turn on the video here? Well, anyway, we'll just well, I'll just talk. CES is a key measure of our success throughout the support organization, and and it's something I would say we care about, throughout the entire team is very much focused on customer effort. And we we at a team level, it's it it is just that it's success measured at a team level versus an individual level, because as we all know, there's a lot that goes into, you know, the experience of the customer, not just the experience that they get with the last support engineer that they might be, working with. So we do measure it all throughout. It's a key measure of our success. We also do measure, as I said, CSAP and, the, experience with the support engineer, but CES is the main one. Yeah. It's really interesting. I I think we're we're gonna see that transition over time, Patrick, as our own community matures and we have more opportunities to to plug in sort of the voice of the customer or the CX platform overall. We've got a ways to go in complete transparency with everybody. We're learning on the in real time just like you. John, any comment on on the conversation so far? I don't wanna Oh, I I could pontificate for an hour. Okay. Of course. I'm I'm thrilled to hear that that customer effort score is your key measure because, all the correlation analysis we've done shows a very clear link between customer effort, renewals, you know, additional purchases from the company. It is the single most critical number that you can drive. Yeah. Not to be too controversial, but I think Net Promoter is useless. I mean, even Frederick Reichheld, who invented Net Promoter, says it was never intended to be used that way. And every research study has shown, you know, ninety percent of people may say they would promote you, but if you follow-up six months later and say, have you promoted you, it's usually less than ten percent. So I, you know, I don't know that it's that meaningful. And, John, I you know, you know this as well as in a few TSIA sessions that I've been from a support perspective, there is a a clear shift from in support from NPS to customer effort. Definitely, there you we're we're seeing that shift. Anybody we talk to is is starting to focus much more on customer effort than NPS. And the other moment for me, and we were talking about this right before, is knowing that it only takes three negative experiences to to impact the overall relationship. You know, I I'm glad you're doing these transactional studies. You know, every time they touch an agent, we're surveying what that experience was like. And I'm wondering how many companies are doing correlation with the overall, like, that annual satisfaction score. Because, you know, if you've had three cases that got negative, comments from a customer, that's a problem. And I'm wondering, you know, maybe this should be factored into the customer health score that success is tracking. It's you know, that that data point's really kind of been an epiphany for me, and I'm I'm wondering I know we we track transactional CSAT. We track, you know, annual or overall CSAT. Wondering how many people are doing correlation between the two. Correlation is really interesting, and your point around MPS is well taken. When we run our voice of customer surveys to in a one to many ways, so not transactional, I see a there's a even if someone is a detractor, the CSAT can still be very high or the opposite is true. And so these indicators longer term and and she makes a point about, you know, in a cloud based company, a SaaS based company, those indicators are everything when you're you're thinking about retention. And those are as early indicators of action. What can you do for that account to to ensure that they have the next positive experience with you, deploying teams and and and services overall. Okay. I'm gonna Tracy, if you don't if you don't mind, I'm gonna push this reflection on metrics just one step further because we're we're in the the mist and and, John, you'll be happy to hear this. We're we're in the mist of implementing support logic for us in support. And for those of you who are not familiar with support logic, there is the whole notion of sentiment score, and it's it's brought down at the case level. So you can measure sent customer sentiment score at the case level. You can filter on the customer. You can filter by agent. And and for us, because of our transactional survey, response rates is in, like, the six percent, we only get a glimpse of what the actual customer experience is. With a platform like SupportLogic and having every case have a sentiment score on it, that really changes everything because now you have one hundred percent response rate on how the customer interaction. And and for me, that is that is completely a a a a different game right there. Just because now you have a full view of how the customer really feels throughout the interactions with your support team. I just did a webinar with SupportLogic yesterday, and when I started to I had a customer call. I'm gonna listen to the recording. The customer they had presenting has merged support and success together because they are saying that the primary driver for renewals is whether they had a good support experience or not. So they're doing I mean, that that sentiment analysis score is really their customer health score, and they can tell really quickly by analyzing the conversations they've had with the customer over the last year. They know if they're gonna renew or not. So I I, yeah, it's it's really interesting what you can learn from the data you've got locked in your ticketing system already, and very few companies are taking advantage of that. So interesting. And what would be a credible response rate, Patrick? You mentioned six percent, but I guess I mean, it's all determined on your send rate and and I just I'm looking always for a but that benchmark that says, okay. You're within the threshold of good. So that has credibility, and then the whole organization really understands what that means. To your point, this is gonna affect revenue downstream. You know, how do you get people on board? We're going way off script here, which I love. This is the this is the conversation we wanted. So this so, yeah, thank you, Bente, for bringing this up. This is good. I mean, that's a good question. John, I don't know if you have access to the to the support benchmark around, transactional survey, response rates where we actually have our readout on the TSIA benchmark we just submitted on the week of April twelfth. So I'll know where I'll know where we stand. But, I think, John, you you might have access to that data point much Yeah. I'm I'm getting logged in right now to look for it. But because we haven't benchmarked we haven't benchmarked within eighteen months, so I can't go on the TSA widgets and figure that out. But Right. There's a hundred and ninety two questions in the benchmark. I don't know if you know. I know. I just wanna We we can send it out afterwards to everybody just in case. Absolutely. Sorry for putting you on the spot. This is, historically historically, Tracy, in previous lives, the six percent response rate that we have here at Coveo is much higher than I've seen in the past. You know, in previous lives, I would see between maybe one point five and three percent if you're lucky. The fact at Coveo, we're a little, you know, different. We're very low volume. Put some context. We get about a hundred and a hundred and fifteen cases per week, and we're a team of about twenty five, twenty six agents. If you do the math, we're not handling a lot of cases, but there's very high levels of complexity. So I think that this has, probably an impact on the survey just because we build that partnership and and and that, that proximity with our customers. So I would think our response rates are are higher than what I've seen in a more higher volume, you know, shop before. But exactly where we stand in in our industry versus Pacesetter, as I mentioned, John will have access to that data. Right? The average response rate for assisted support surveys is fifteen point eight percent. The median is fourteen point four percent, and it looks like the pacesetter number is twenty. Wow. Okay. So we're following that. But, you know, I I don't know if I've got the numbers. Oh, on self-service surveys, though, it's much lower. So on self-service, the average is seven percent. Pacesetter is seven percent. Median's four point six. So I talk to companies all the time that are lucky to get one or two percent percent response rate on self-service surveys, and you wonder at that point, is that even statistically valid? Mhmm. Yeah. And we struggled with that too. And and what we've called in moments that matter, working coupling, sentiment score feedback, with the customer success team across the life cycle, we see as high as eleven percent response rate even though it tends to be a smaller list based on the account at a certain life cycle stage, versus when we're doing more of a one to many approach, less less modern, than where I'd like us to be, the percentage of response rate is probably if we hit five percent, I'd be delighted, with a much larger larger larger dataset. Pardon me. Okay. Go ahead, Patrick. Sorry. I was just gonna say so for us, you know, because of the the low response rates that we see on our surveys Mhmm. For us to have something like support logic that measures the sentiment score on every single case is you we're gonna have much more data to to know exactly how satisfied our customers are throughout the whole transaction based on on their own words and the tone that they use. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. The tone. That that's that's such an important one too, around any of the open ended feedback you're getting. Okay. So that was really, really great conversation. Thank you. I wanna shift us just a little bit into, John, you bring up always, you know, what people aren't measuring as measurements of success, the gap, you know, and I love that because it's, you know, we we think click through. We talked about this earlier, but I wondered if you could riff on that because we did have a good conversation earlier around what is the measurements you're not seeing that really do indicate relevance. I mean, we have talked about, a few, but certainly, I think you have some a strong sense of of what you're seeing as trend, an unhealthy trend anyways. Well, in the the webinar we did, last week, you know, we talked about, like, the relevance trajectory, and I was trying to find data on where people were. I would say about thirty eight percent of companies have a completely irrelevant website, which means that they don't have any unified search and you've got to search every single repository separately, which nobody's gonna do. The personalization is where, you know, we were just talking about content gap analysis. You know, you're investing in this fantastic technology, but not everybody's leveraging the capabilities of the analytics. And I know that sometimes that comes in the second year. But when we look at what percentage of companies are personalizing frequently asked question lists, it's only twelve percent. And, you know, the FAQs can be the most powerful self-service tool because it's right there in your face when you log in. And if you're not filtering those to only, you know, include information about products this customer owns or applicable to the version they're on or the the country they're in or or whatever, they just ignore that. So it it just becomes kind of a useless block of space on on your website. So, you know, anyway, when I collect data about how people are leveraging the analytics in this platform, that's what I typically see is that they've they've brought in Coveo. They've implemented it. They're getting good search results, but they're not taking it as far as they should. And, you know, I keep I just referred one of our members to you guys for an audit because it's like, you know, you're you've you've got the Cadillac of the industry, and, you know, you're driving fifty five. So what can we do to to speed it up a little bit? So you know? And, usually, that's, like a phased approach. And I know your customer success organization works with, you know, how do you get customers to leverage more and more of the capabilities. So, you know, that's my piece of advice is if you don't have a dedicated analytics person spending time every week on your you know, the the intelligence powering your search technology, you're probably not getting as good as results as as you could. And if you think you're getting good results, you could definitely, you know, get even more. Yeah. Even more for sure. Is that point of maturity to, you know, we talked about siloed search, so going from one domain to the next trying to find the thing. You know, unified search obviously solves for that problem. But is it a is it a point in that relevance maturity you in the way you think about it, They're connecting more systems and bringing more, pieces of the the content architecture online, I suppose. And is that a is does that exist in the maturity as well? Well, I tell you. And I I don't wanna disparage, any people in support, but, you know, I've been doing this a long time, and I ran support for years and implemented a lot of knowledge bases. And support people think they know what customers want, and they're wrong. You know? And and they always think that, well, this one knowledge repository really has all the answers. That's all they need. Mhmm. And so I find that they may do a phased approach that they they go live with self-service, but they're only really indexing the product documentation and the knowledge base. And only about a third of companies have indexed their community. And to me, you know, the community has probably got better information, and a lot of people call their community their early warning system because customers will be out chatting about a bug or an issue a week before they ever contact support about it. And if you're not mining those conversations, I mean, nobody's got the budget or the resources to be creating as much knowledge as you want. So you need to be mining everything you can get your hands on. And so, yeah, I think the the learning management system, release notes, anything, could have that kernel of information that makes the customer successful. So, you know, I just I really think we need to kind of expand our horizon on what useful content is. And if you index it and they never use it, you know, what what problem did that cause? I wanna ask the audience here as well. Do they have any good examples where, they've had that very experience that, you know, one more, indexed knowledge base, whether they thought it was only for internal and it went external, and and they were delighted, to see that uptick in content consumption. If anyone has a great example, I'd love to hear it. That that definitely speaks to, obviously, what Coveo does so well. But our own journey, Patrick, I'm sure you'd echo that a little bit in terms of, you know, what we've got turned on and what we need to do next, and and we're trying to see the trends to turn it on. And and I'm wondering if maybe we're playing it too safe too. I I wouldn't say we're playing it too safe. I I think where we might be struggling is having the overarching strategy around how content is is managed. Because, you know, you you have education services doing their thing for training. You got the documentation team doing their thing for documentation, support creating knowledge articles, and and then you have the community. And although most of that is is being indexed, there are still some things that if you look at our our our trainings, they're not indexed because they're not created in a way that they can be indexed because, you know, they're recorded. There's text. There's so there there there's things that as as you you think of content that is, you know, externally available, you need to think about that. You need to think about what your strategy is gonna be. How are you gonna make that available? You know, how are you gonna make the information within your piece of content regardless what it is, you know, easily findable so you can drive that relevancy with with, the customers. I mean, for for our journey right now, it's more about it's more about driving that real relevancy and increasing that relevancy. You know, that's that's where we are. I mean, when we look at content gap, with the con with the number of of content we have out there, not a lot of queries don't yield any results. Right? It's it's it's a very low percentage if if there is percentage. Where, you know, we're we're thinking about it is is more from a relevancy perspective. And that's a little bit where we where we we struggle and also nudging the customer behavior. So if you look at at how I'll just talk about, you know, case case creation, case deflection because that that's, you know, where where my focus is from the from our our poor experience perspective is the way the the interface is built where you fill in your case fields on the left hand side and you have your documents suggestions on the right hand side. As your heads down on your keyboard typing away, you don't see those results adapting or or changing. Mhmm. So the customer behavior is that I look at the results that are there. I select my product. I looked. I don't see. I put in my subject. I put in my description. I fill in the fields. I did not notice that they changed. Changed. Even though we're indexing, you know, everything except training. You know, anything can come Barca. A community thread, a knowledge article, documentation, anything can come up, but they just don't see it. So we're in the process, and this will be live in a few actually, we are the eleventh in nine days. Yeah. We have this new feature called case assist. And, basically, this is a multi page creation workflow where we basically ask you two questions to start off with is what can we help you with and, you know, what's the description of your problem. And based on that and we we we kind of have a little little measurement that says your description strong enough a little bit like when you're entering your password. You know? And and when the whole circle is green, it says, okay. Your description is strong enough. And then we suggest some of the the the metadata, if we can say that is in our in our documentation. We suggest, based on what we've detected here. So do we do you get your product right? Do we get your context right and all that? And once the customer confirms all of that, the next page is dedicated to content. And that's how we're gonna nudge customer behavior. So that's where we're gonna see if our content is really relevant. Because right now, because of the because of the behavioral aspect of how it's designed, we're not nudging or or or, you know, really promoting our content that much because it's on a it's on a side panel versus now it's going to be on a full page. The the content is going to be bigger. The real estate will be completely dedicated to that, and we hope that we're going to have more success. And then if you don't find what you're looking for, then you're gonna finish and give us the details that we need to route your case to the right person and so on and so forth. So it's gonna be a a three page thing. More clicks, but probably gonna be much more relevant to the customer. And and we're hopeful that we're gonna have much more success in in in driving that, use case deflection, but that's not really what we're aiming for. I don't have any set goals on case deflection. For me, it's like, if if the customer was successful, however they found their information, that's what counts. It's the customer experience and and not just about case deflection. Because if the case comes our way, you know, we have to maintain that customer experience. We have to make sure that it's it's relevant to them. I think that's where Caveo can also be a game changer because if you're using the the our technology like the insight panel, if you're in Salesforce or ServiceNow, then you know what the customer consulted already. So to to continue being relevant with your customer, you're not saying, oh, did you look at this document? Did you look at this document? And the customer says, I read those already. They searched my they didn't resolve my problem. You should know this out of the gate. So the fact that you're capturing the customer journey throughout their experience on their community and you're able to present that to your agents and say, hey. They already looked at these documents, so that's not gonna resolve their issue. So you need to find something else. Maybe the document does not exist, but at least you continue that experience and and you carry that relevancy through self-service to assist and support. So that's that's the journey we're on. So I would touch on a lot of things here. But Journey, like you said. Now I'd be and certainly, I'll take back my comments around, being aggressive enough and playing it safe because I think that's all the right things to do and certainly gives us a better correlation, as you said, of relevance, for sure. We've talked about all these measurements and, the upside, I guess, and touched a little bit about the cost of irrelevance. So, you know, are these leading indicators of churn? Are these leading indicators of, you know, less likely to even upsell or expand? You know, any when you start connecting the dots on the accounts, especially in a SaaS model where you're constantly you know, you're looking to expand your footprint with these customers, I'm wondering, John, do you have any good numbers, this is terrible, to say that, you know, this is what it costs not to do these things, do or do nothing. You know, this the out of the box solution isn't enough, or it's not serving that journey in the way you envision it to. I guess Yeah. I've I've published the report once upon a time called the cost of doing nothing. Every sales rep went, thank god. Yeah. Well, I I don't have any specific data on that. Although, I think if you look at, you know, pacesetter numbers versus, you know, some low average numbers on things like success and deflection, I mean, you know, I I I think deflection has become a cult, and I I wish people would stop focusing so much on it. But, you know, when you see companies with sixty, sixty five percent deflection and other companies have five percent deflection, I mean, that that's a really sad lost opportunity. But I think from a more strategic point, and I talked about this on our webinar, you know, that more studies are saying that companies are doing as much as seventy to seventy five percent of the sales process before they contact the sales rep. And every day, I talk to TSI members shopping for tools. And let me tell you, they go to the self-service site and the community as part of the evaluation. And if they find an incredible self-service site with great experience, great tools, a vibrant engaged community, you definitely end up on the shortlist even if you may not have some of the bells and whistles of another product that has a pretty low luster, lackluster, self-service experience. So, you know, I think it's more than just a support conversation. I think it is a sales conversation, and especially cloud companies have cloud customers who are very oriented to self-service and community. I I I couldn't agree more as sort of the internal champion, Patrick and I definitely would we're gonna we recorded that exact point, John. We'll be talking that internally for our customers. We definitely put them at the center of of all these, all these pieces. And, you know, we in the webinar last week, I know you referenced Informatica and ConnectWise really being again, pacesetters are predictive across these multiple channels. And we're gonna queue up kind of the topics for for our next session hopefully coming, in April. So look out in your inboxes for that everyone. You know, talking about their work to get there, you know, the journey to to relevance, and you mentioned it, community as a channel. How did how did they get to that predictive state? I guess there's it's two two fold. And how did they know what channels to invest in and and back to the even what to index kind of question, knowing how far ahead they are than most? It's very difficult. And Informatica, who I'm the most familiar with, you know, they're a data and analytics company. So it's it's easier for them. They've got hundreds of data scientists at their disposal, which very few companies do. But, you know, what they've done is from mainly from, I think, a success standpoint, they have really done a lot of work in understanding the end to end customer journey, end to end customer experience. And most companies collect data at each point, but it's siloed. They're not sharing it. They're not looking at, you know, how a sales experience affects the implementation experience, affects the onboarding experience, etcetera. But what, Informatica has done is they have done so much mining of customer journeys and understanding where every customer is in that journey, and that's different for every product they own. Right? That when a customer comes to the website, they look at where they are in their journey. What was the last case they had? What was the last document they looked like on self-service? They look at every other customer at their point in that journey and what they ask. And they're now eighty accurately prompting the customer with information before they even ask for it. So eighty percent of the time, they know why the customer came to the website, and they're proactively prompting them with the content that they were they came to look for. And that blows me away. I mean, I I I think, you know, if you could be right twenty percent of the time, that would be amazing. But when you talk about a relevance trajectory, I mean, that experience compared to a company that you've got to search in twelve different knowledge bases to find what you need, you don't even have unified search. I mean, that that alone will drive sales for for a product. So, you know, I think it's really partnering with your success organization to understand what the end to end customer experience is and trying to catch enough data about that that you really can start being more predictive. But I I think that is really, you know, an advanced topic most companies. It is mind blowing. Jaw dropping. In fact, eighty percent of the time, that is, that is a dream for us to get there for sure. You need you need volume excuse me. You need volume to get there. Sure. We get a lot of volume. You need you need a lot of volume. And if if I look at at our visits to our community and portal, we get about fifteen thousand visits, you know, per quarter. And and out of that, only ten percent make it to the case creation page. And out of that ten percent, we get about a twenty five to thirty percent deflection. So, to your point, John, if we're just measuring deflection, we're not measuring the full impact of our technology on our own community because, you know, out of those fifteen hundred, I got thirteen thousand five hundred people who never made it to the case creation page. Can I count all of that as deflection? No. Because I don't know their intent coming in. But getting to that, you know, prescriptive or predictive, you know, maturity, you know, that that's an end dream because you detect intent, you know what they want, and and you can even reduce the number of people making it to the case creation page just because you you're you're you're driving relevant, information to them. Informatica is doing it. Sorry. Just answering a question that popped up. I've I've been to dismiss the the company. If you if you search on the TSI website, they've presented their case study, in a couple of public sessions. So you can you can find it. One was a Findability virtual summit that Louis participated in last year, but they've done some conference presentations on it as well. So, you know, check out just search Informatica on the TSIA website. You should find some some good content. And who you know, we've talked about this whole success organization, education services, support, customer success, and some and some other orgs and redesign. How how are you seeing that roll up, John? And then, sir, how do those teams or is there an even more expanded view of all those teams that need to come together to to make I mean, eighty percent is the the goal. But Funny timing. Our executives just published a report last week on Convergence, and it's you know, they've got a number of companies that are starting on that journey. But it's a challenge because, you know, across support and success and field service and managed services and education services, definitely professional services, traditionally, they're their own department. They've got their own p and l. They've got their own technology stack, and they're it's just like these intractable service lines. But when we surveyed, companies asking, do you see an opportunity to start merging resources across? Sixty nine percent of companies said absolutely. And, you know, there are companies, that are looking at fungibility. Right? So what are the resources with similar skills? Do we really need a full time field service person and a full time PS person? Could they be doing one thing one week and and one thing, the other? And so, you know, what we're recommending is start breaking down the lines, trying to create a single p and l across services. And in the beginning, I think success, we know, is typically reporting up to the chief customer officer. And the services is in this tactical, you know, this tactical silo under some service executive, and we're recommending that the service the and then, ultimately, you know, support and success and all of the service lines can be at the same level and all sharing information, sharing practices. I mean, there's so much lip service about our company is organized around the customer, and we all know it's not true. But, you know, when it comes to a a cloud world where it's all about subscriptions, and if they're not satisfied, if they're not having a low effort experience, they're not gonna renew. You're not even gonna make money on the account till they renew for the second time often. So, yeah, if we're not all working together, there's no way we're gonna be successful in a subscription economy. And we sure gotta break down the p and l barriers between all of these different groups because, they there's such an overlap in the the skills they need, the expertise they need, and I think we could definitely be a lot smarter about the way we deliver services. Yeah. I would agree. So I'm just going to switch. We have a few minutes. If you have a question for John or Patrick, now is the time. I asked you to to participate all along. We had some. Oh, Justine, thank you. She's showing the she's showing the conversation from Coveo. She's sharing the link in the chat to the TSIA sessions. Appreciate that, Justine, so much. Any q and a directly for John and Patrick is welcome now. One question. So you said chief customer officer. I think that's still relatively new. It's happening more and more in organizations now, so it goes beyond, the lip service you mentioned. Are there any other sort of new roles or or shifting roles you've seen just because the technology can enable that kind of change in the organization as quickly? I think we're still struggling that nobody owns the end to end customer experience. And if if any of you work for for consumer companies, I mean, things like a Nike, the the marketing organization owns everything. They own sales. They own support. They own everything, and they truly own the end to end customer experience. And b to b companies, marketing has has historically been lead gen. That's it. So, you know, I think that's the challenge. And, yeah, we are seeing more companies creating a chief customer officer, but about eighty percent of the time, their sole focus is renewals. So, you know, renewals, it's too late. Once they've decided not to renew, it's a little late. And if they don't own that end to end process, So I I'd say it's still a work in progress. I think it's great that you've got a title out there. I think if you're gonna have a title of chief customer officer, you need to own a lot more than renewals. And, you know, it's kind of sad the CEO isn't the chief customer officer because you kinda think they should be. Right. That's a tone, doesn't it? That's great. But it's it's tough, especially for legacy on premise companies, moving to a a subscription economy. That's a you know, the change management involved is a lot more complex than the technology or the processes. It's it's changing the way you do business, and it's it's it's a really hard shift to make. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. I wanna be respectful of everyone's time. This has been a really fantastic conversation. I wanted I'm always pitching the next step with everyone. We have Relevance three sixty coming up in, I think, two weeks exactly, March twenty fifth. It's happening fast, and, we had a ton of fun doing this last, October. We invited, of course, our customers and and, you know, people exploring Coveo and just people really wanting to understand the application of AI and machine learning and all different use cases. So I do, you know, invite all of you to, register and save your seat for that event. As I said, we are going to repeat this round table with some more consistency. We've been doing this in the past in smaller communities of our customers, but this is really a lot of fun for me selfishly. So John, Patrick, thank you for for all of your answers and well thought out, you know, sharing your experiences. It's so helpful. So invites to the next session will be in all of your inbox shortly as well. But do register for Relevance three sixty. We'll send the recording of this conversation out to your inboxes, probably, like, by the end of the week. So, with that, happy Thursday. Enjoy, the rest of your day, and thank you again for spending the time with us today. John, Patrick, thank you again. Chetsey. Thanks. It was fun. Lots of time. Take care. Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye.