Hello, everyone. We'll get started in just one minute. Just waiting for people to join us. Alright. Hello, everyone. Welcome to our webinar, why search insights are the secret ingredient in service success. My name is Bonnie Chase, and I'm honored to be joining you today with our special guest, John Goodman, who's the vice chairman of in of customer care measurement and consulting, as well as the author of two books you may be familiar with, customer experience three dot o and strategic customer service. I'm excited to get us started, but a few housekeeping items before we do. First, we strongly encourage you to ask questions throughout the session. We'll answer them in the q and a portion at the end of the presentation. This webinar will be recorded, and you will receive a copy of the recording within twenty four hours after the session. So let's get started by looking at the agenda. You know, our topic for this webinar is really around search insights, you know, and and we we have found that organizations are really looking for better ways to measure overall service success. Now traditional ways of measuring, like, case deflection and and CSAT are things that that we've looked at for years, but we we found gaps in those in those metrics. Case deflection, for example, only measures a portion of customer interactions. CSAT can be attributed to a lot of things outside of the support experience as well. So when we think about other ways of measuring success and driving that success in self-service, one of the areas that can be overlooked is search. Now search is more than a tool. Search gives us insights around a lot more than, you know, what they're looking for. It gives us insights to intents. It gives us insight into, you know, what what kind of gaps we have within our product and within our content. And so today, we'll be talking with John about, you know, five key areas. One, what give us some context around search within the customer experience. We'll be looking at customer behaviors that impact search, looking at customer experience three dot o, and then, you know, payoffs of search on customer experience as well as additional ways to measure success. So, John, why don't we go ahead and get started? And can you give us a little bit of context around search within customer experience? Absolutely. And and I wanna start off by saying I really do have a broader perspective on search that it's not really the basic boring utility that people tend to view it as. In fact, if you look at it correctly, it's a window into the broader set of opportunities for proactively enhancing the customer experience. And when we talk about customer behaviors, I'm also going to get into new research we've just done on customer delight. We've spent the past forty years focusing on the bottom end of the scale, grumpy people and people who complain or don't complain and spread negative word-of-mouth. But we've recently done some exciting research on delight that really feeds right back into customer experience three dot o and shows the payoff of being proactive and preventive and engaging in addition to just basically answering the question. And then we're gonna talk about how does one actually, provide the, the quantification of that. Because we find that the critical thing to get the CFO and CMO onboard is you have to be able to quantify this in a way that they think makes sense. So to provide a context, what we find is that in any customer experience, ideally, you wanna do the job right the first time. And this means meeting customer expectations. But the problem most companies have is that they have defined doing it right the first time as delivering the product according to spec, which makes eminently good sense except for one problem called customers who have incorrect expectations. And it's not at the point where Sharp Electronics has a red plaque on their top of the box. It says when all else fails, try reading the directions. I'm an engineer, so I never read the directions and get myself into trouble. But the basic point is that, if I don't have all my questions answered proactively, then I have either a question or problem. And so then we get to the whole area of access. And most organizations say, oh, well, access is just providing easy access to the information. But there's a prerequisite, which is getting the customer to even go look for it. What we have found is when people have questions or problems, three quarters, and in some cases, ninety percent of people just don't bother looking for it. They say, ah, the heck with it. I'll just just move on, and they end up having a less than stellar experience. Now in addition, you do have your contact handling, response system, and this is where I get my answer. But the big opportunity here is rather than just giving you the plain vanilla answer, why not delight you by connecting emotionally or going beyond and giving you more information? And so we think that the search function can contribute to that delight activity, and it also can feed into identifying why are we getting these contacts. Because you're gonna see that at least thirty percent of all contacts are preventable had you done a better job of proactively communicating with the customer. So we see that these three areas are big opportunities for search to make a contribution to the not only the bottom line, but the top line. Now in terms of what hasn't changed in the last few decades on the customer behavior, and again, we started in the seventies. Our research actually instigated the use of eight hundred numbers for customer service. What we find is that most customers don't complain, and it's because it's too much trouble. I don't know where to complain. It's not gonna do any good anyway. And we find that the ratio of complaints, that you get versus the problems in the in the marketplace for consumers is somewhere between five to one to fifty to one. And for business to business, it's at least three to one, and in many cases, up to twenty to one. So what that says is there's an iceberg of dissatisfaction and confusion out there that you're not hearing about, and that's leading to attrition and negative word-of-mouth. Now our traditional research we did in the seventies and eighties for Coca Cola said that twice as many people hear about a bad experience as a good experience. Our most recent wave of the national rage study has shown that it's now a three to one ratio. Three times as many people hear about a bad experience as a good experience. And the stories from word-of-mouth are now having more impact. Now the good news is that if you can get word positive word-of-mouth being generated from a good experience, customers acquired via word-of-mouth are worth twenty five percent more than customers acquired through other means, and they're much less price sensitive. So in the ideal world, you will attract new customers via word-of-mouth. And a good example of this is The Cheesecake Factory. The Cheesecake Factory gets more than seventy percent of all its new customers via word-of-mouth, and their president reports that their marketing and sales expense is one fourth that of their direct competitors. And what he says is we let our customers do our selling for us, and they are wildly profitable. Now one thing that has changed in terms of of customer behavior is that the, the channels have changed. People are using much more in the way of digital channels. We're actually seeing chat surpass the telephone now as a primary channel of of interaction. Now in terms of understanding customer behavior, what we find is that most people assume if we have a dissatisfied customer, Mary Lou, that frontline rep must have done something wrong. And if we can identify who she is and have a public hanging, life will then be beautiful. We disagree with that. We think almost every employee is coming to work desperately trying to do a good job. And in fact, twenty to thirty percent of dissatisfaction is caused by customers doing dumb things and failing to read the directions. My favorite example is Clorox. It was a client of ours. They would get not a complaint, but a helpful suggestion once a month. Why don't you make Clorox taste better? The specific suggestion is cherry flavor. People would brush their teeth and it would whiten your teeth and also whiten your esophagus. And I don't know what it does for your breath. But the basic point is, companies say, look. If the customer is an idiot, it's not my problem. It is your problem because you get blamed for it, plus you have to clean up the mess. Now the balance of dissatisfaction is caused by companies poorly designing products that have unpleasant surprises built into them and marketing creating incorrect expectations. So when one starts looking at the causes of customer dissatisfaction and this translates into the causes of questions and problems that people have that search has to respond to, you need to be thinking in terms of these different categorizations. And the good news is that at least thirty percent of all the transactions and contacts are preventable if you had better communication with the customer upfront. Now I've mentioned our delight research. What we found was that three of the biggest delighters are trans you were transparent, you were honest, and you gave me golden nuggets of information. So to the degree that that we can proactively communicate, here's probably your next two questions and communicate that to the customer. You're gonna dazzle their socks off and delight them. Plus you're gonna actually prevent a whole bunch of contacts. Now where this data came from was we did a cross section survey of the US population of people with over a hundred thousand dollars in household income. And we said, have you had any delighters in the last six months? What were they? Please describe. And then what was your market action? And we are happy to provide that study to anybody. Just go to our website and you can download a summary of that. Now the other interesting thing is that we find that businesses behave the same way as consumers in that businesses cause a lot of their own problems. In two surveys we've done of CEOs of small and medium sized companies, we find thirty percent of business customers don't even read their contracts, so they don't really know what they bought. And the noncomplaint rate for businesses is actually higher than for consumers because if I'm paying you twenty thousand dollars a month, I really don't wanna complain about that technician because I don't wanna sour the relationship, and I'm dependent on that person. And so I put up with it even though I'm not really happy. So so we see counterintuitive behaviors in the b to b environment. Now to create a search impact strategy, step one is, as I implied in our context, you have to motivate people to wanna search because more than half don't bother. And so we find one of the best ways of communicating to the customer is a message that's like we can only solve problems we know about. Here's the search. Find your answer here. If you wanna be fancy about it, you can actually tailor it to their persona in terms of at one of the computer companies, we would say, are you a techno geek? Do you know enough to be dangerous? Or are you a music major? And then we have three different ways of talking to you and explaining to you, what the issue was, and that can be incorporated in into the search mechanism. The second step is that, yes, you want them to use the FAQs, but highlight the search function because the search function is gonna be faster and less frustrating. Then the critical thing is to go beyond search to delight. This is the first big opportunity. And there are four broad kinds of delight. You can be transparent and honest. You can be enthusiastic and empathetic. You can cross sell. And again, this is surprising, but if I cross sell you something you actually need, I create delight. We've seen this, for instance, in cosmetics. You're buying one cosmetic. I I suggest three others. Harley Davidson does this beautifully. They sell you a bike for twenty five thousand dollars, and then they sell you another twenty thousand dollars of chrome so you can personalize your bike, and you're delighted to to spend that. So, what we find is that that moving to Delight is easy to do, especially even in a digital fashion. Because in our Delight study, we found forty eight percent of all Delight experiences were not delivered face to face or over the phone, but were delivered digitally, which means using the right words in a email or a chat will work just as well as doing it over the phone. At Zappos, they have someone who says, I'm I'd love to help you find your missing package. I am the superhero of missing packages. And so they're injecting some humor and a lot of enthusiasm, and that creates delight. Now the next big opportunity is one that that people don't think of often, which is you can eliminate the need for search by simply doing it right the first time. Let's do better proactive customer boarding, education, and just in time communication. If you do that, then the person has their question proactively answered. There's no need to do the search. And so you never get into the the situation of, hey. I have a question or problem I need to have responded to. The other opportunity that very, very few companies take advantage of is measuring the impact in terms of prevention and delight in addition to call deflection and and search success. This is what Bonnie was talking about that you need to go beyond call deflection and search success, because those are basically just prevention activities that are are preventing cost. But if I can prevent you from having the question or problem or ideally delight you, I am not just reducing costs, but I'm creating an enhancement in loyalty and enthusiasm and and delight and word-of-mouth, all of which add to revenue. And this is really where we're gonna be going for the rest of this conversation, which is the revenue implications of delight and prevention and doing it right the first time are ten to twenty times the cost implications. So if all you're trying to do is save yourself into prosperity, you are missing the boat completely. And for instance, then in this whole area of delight, what we found was that in financial services within our delight study, that in financial services, the average delighted person told four people positive things about the company, and one or two of those people actually took action on that recommendation. And thirty percent of those people said they would pay more for the services of that company. So you're enhancing margins plus you're acquiring new customers at next to no cost. And by the way, we have data from twelve different industries, everything from financial services to automobiles to health care to retail to ecommerce. So, again, reach out to us, afterward, and I'd be happy to provide you data from from any of those, industries. Now to create a search strategy that has impact, we basically take the the previous slide and we sort of say, okay. What what are we doing in each of these areas? If I motivate you to search, keeping in mind more than half don't bother, what we're gonna do is reduce the number of people who are dissatisfied because they had an issue or question that they didn't get an answer for. So, again, the first thing is we can only solve problems we know about. Please use our search. We really do have the answer. It's possible to get the answer. Secondly, yes, yes. You want people to use the FAQs, but the problem is FAQs in many cases are long lists. And what we have found is that anytime you have a list with more than seven things in one list, it sort of looks gray to people. So you have to have things clustered into groups of seven or less. But much more effectively, if you have people go to the search, they can start putting in what they're looking for and have a type ahead function. AARP has a very slick function, which Coveo helped install, that does this. And this basically allows people to find what they needed, which is a deflection, and that you get a basic cost savings. But what AARP also does is they don't just deflect the call the the the call by giving you the answer. They then identify ways of going to the third thing, which is let's try moving you further on to delight. So you are then in the situation of I found what I needed, and it was a good, effortless experience, and I got extra information, and you may have even created emotional connection. So the simple fact of providing that answer, whether it's digitally or over the phone, by any channel, you can take that answer and I'll add by Zappos example. It's it doesn't cost you anything to type. I would love to help you with this. And by the way, I'm the superhero of lost packages. And there I'm I'm creating two things that may create delight. And so you wanna take the basic answer and say, how can we enhance it? The next step is we wanna reduce the need for search with the proactive onboarding and just in time communication so that we are reducing the number of questions and problems that people have upfront. And this is a continuing process of identifying what are people, confused about. And every time you change your marketing message or you have a new promotion, you're gonna create new questions and problems. So this is a very much of a continuation continuous process. And then the final part is that you wanna measure the impact and of of these actions. And, again, you're looking at loyalty, word-of-mouth, satisfaction, and margins in terms of how likely is it you would pay more for this, or how satisfied are you with the price of this. And what we have found is that problems and questions decrease satisfaction with price. The minute I have one question or problem, my sensitivity to price doubles. If I have two problems or questions, it doubles again. On the other hand, if I proactively answer those, then my value received actually goes up. And, again, this also applies in a business to business environment where with a software as a service major provider, billion dollar company, what we found was that when business customers were delighted, we saw their net promoter scores went up anywhere from eighteen to thirty points. So it is possible to delight companies just like you can delight consumers. I think one of the interesting things about, you know, this search strategy is it really is very customer centric. You know, we're not we're not talking about making people search in a specific area or or forcing people into a certain, you know, portal to search. It's really about meeting them where they are, meeting them when they need that information, even before they need that information, and that requires more than customer support. So like you said, you know, it's it's training, it's onboarding, it's marketing, it's company wide. So it really requires that customer focused culture within the organization for you to be able to to implement that successfully. Yep. Bonnie, I think you hit on a key point, which is that we find that most companies say, oh, well, if this is a support function, it should be on the support page. But there was a a there is a well known insurance company that happens to have a duck as a logo, and they, their service people said, gee. We we had a bunch of people communicating, asking how can I print my invoice? And the IT department said, oh, but you can't print your invoice. You just go to the support page and go five clicks in, and there's a hyperlink. Stop. Move it to the home page. And the minute they did that, the number of clicks on that hyperlink went from thirty thousand a month to a hundred and twenty thousand a month. Now what were the other ninety thousand people doing? They were being grumpy, looking for it, calling their agent. The point being, and and this is exactly what you said is, the home page for for the top five things people are looking for, have those hyperlinks on the home page, and, again, stress search, but, you know, figure out how do we educate them so that they never even have to think about that. And that's the real real challenge. So I think that's a really good point that that search is not just support. Search has to be across the entire experience. Now what's the payoff? And you really need to get your CFO and CMO to buy into it or you're not gonna get the resources you need. First, an unsearch question or problem reduces loyalty and satisfaction by twenty percent. At a minimum, ten percent, but sort of the average across all problems and questions is about a twenty percent decline, which means that for every five customers who have an unsearch question, one of those customers is gonna go away. And then you look at what the value of a customer is, and that becomes a significant amount of money. If I have great effort or get irrelevant results in a search, that can do ten to thirty percent damage to loyalty and satisfaction. Because I've gone to the trouble of looking, and then you've given me a a terrible outcome. On the other hand, if I inject enthusiasm, empathy, transparency, or even humor into a response. That enhances loyalty by eight percent. And across all the different industries, forty percent of people say, because I'm delighted, I'm willing to pay more for this product or service. So your margins can go up. Fourth, by anticipating the onboarding and the just in time education, we cut non searched issues by fifty percent. Remember that they have a twenty percent impact on loyalty, and the amount of effort goes down by ten percent. So, again, we are having impact on loyalty and satisfaction. And then finally, what does you'll notice that on all four of these things, I've talked about loyalty. Loyalty impacts affect revenue. That's the top line. And the revenue implications are ten to twenty times the cost savings, the call deflection kinds of payoffs. So all of a sudden now you're playing in a completely different sandbox that's much, much bigger and also is dramatically more relevant to both the CFO for revenue and loyalty and margins and the CMO from margins and word-of-mouth. Because if you can ask your your CMO, is word-of-mouth important? Everyone will say yes. If you can get your word-of-mouth to be good enough, marketing can sit back and do nothing and be wildly successful. So these impacts have dramatically more payoff in the eyes of the CMO and CFO than call deflection. Now here's an example. And this is based on a large business services company who will go nameless. But what we basically found was that about twenty when we went to the customers and said, have you have any questions or problems, we presented them with a list. About twenty percent of them said that they had a problem or question. And of those, about twenty five percent complained, and fifty percent of those were completely satisfied. And if they were completely satisfied, their loyalty was actually eight points higher than if they had no problem whatsoever. And they also told two people positive things about the company. If they were dissatisfied, loyalty was decreased, and they told six people bad things about the company. Now the biggest opportunity that no one ever sort of hears about or thinks about is the non contactors. These are the people who had a question or problem but didn't bother searching for an answer or asking for an answer, their loyalty is damaged, but they're still spreading lots of negative word-of-mouth. And so what are the implications of this? What we find is that if we have two hundred thousand customers and we multiply across, what we find is we have a total of forty six thousand customers who are at risk of leaving. And if that customer is worth, conservatively a thousand dollars per customer, that's forty six million dollars at risk. Now where do we have the most revenue at risk? From the customers who never even bothered to contact us. So the biggest opportunity is the silent customer who is unhappy with you. Now And to add to that, John, you know, real quick, that's that's part of why case deflection shouldn't be a sole focus in customer support because the more we push customers away, the less chance we give them an opportunity to interact with us. Yeah. Exactly. And by the way, you you raise another good point, which is there is a gentleman who used to be a senior executive at Amazon who's written a book entitled the best service is no service. I disagree with that. I conceptually, it sort of makes some sense. But if you don't have an interaction with the customer, you don't have an opportunity to delight or cross sell that customer. And that's where you grow customers is having positive interactions with them. So in this situation, what we basically find is that there are three strategies. Number one, you can prevent problems from taking place. Number two, you can get more people to contact you and use search. Number three, when they do, they are satisfied. You want more people to be satisfied. So what happens if we now prevent one fourth of all these problems? We do aggressive, education, just in time communication. And what we find is we now reduce the number of customers at risk to thirty four thousand, so we've reduced those, who didn't complain, by several thousand. And what we have done at a thousand dollars per customer is we've added eleven million dollars to the top line, plus we have reduced phone calls, the call deflection by twelve thousand five hundred. And what that says is that a gross margin of twenty five percent, if we spent a million dollars on search and prevention, we would get an ROI of a hundred and eighty seven percent. Now this this illustrates Bonnie's point exactly. Because, yes, the call deflection, even at ten dollars a call, which is a fairly expensive call, this is a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. We're adding eleven point five million to the top line. So, again, this is is ten, twenty, thirty times as much impact as the cost savings. So you can't save yourself into prosperity. You need to be growing the top line. And this is a chart that finance people and marketing people get because they can see there are three levers, the number of people who have problems and questions, the number who contact or get assistance, and the number that we satisfy. And if we have those three, we can then calculate what if we pull one of those levers, how much more do we add to the top line and how much more do we add to the bottom line. And this is the way that you start viewing search as a revenue generating activity as opposed to simply a call deflection activity. Now in terms of measurement, there are some interesting challenges. You need to if if you're gonna measure satisfaction and delight and, again, you should be asking people, okay. You went to our search function. Are you happy? Are you delighted? Or are you less than happy? The categories I would suggest are something to the effect of, use metrics like no joy. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get what I wanted. Well, it sorta helped. And you really need that sort of category in there because you may have sort of given them an answer, but they then had to go on and look for more. Or I got what I needed, or I got more than what I needed. It was great. And we found that when we've started using, program utilities in a number of companies, there's no way of adding this top box category. So that's that's sort of an interesting challenge you're gonna run into. Also, you know, you wanna identify issues that have anything less than more than I got more than I needed. And so, for instance, at Social Security, when somebody calls up, they get an answer they either get an answer or they if they use search, they will get an answer that says, here's the answer to your question, and your next question is probably this, and here's the answer to that. And they have found that they've been on target more than fifty percent of the time, and that anticipating of the next question really dazzles the customer. You also wanna identify what are the specific prevalent granular issues where education could prevent the need to search. Because you remember, half of people or more will not bother and are gonna end up just being dissatisfied. So the critical thing in your measurement is not only do you wanna measure satisfied and delighted, but you also wanna measure satisfied and delighted by type of issue they're requesting. Because you're gonna find some things are easy to find answers to, other things are gonna be more complicated, or the answer you're providing isn't necessarily helping. And as I said, remember, no service can't create an emotional connection. So use your responses, whether they're digital or over the phone or video chat, to create delight. And we actually have an an article on our website entitled Making Delight Intentional. And it's actually very, very easy to do. We worked with VIP Desk, one of the outsourcers, and Beautycounter, and we trained their one of their teams for two hours on here are some ways of showing enthusiasm, empathy, doing a little cross selling. And in after that two hour training, we then did a quasi controlled experiment of more than two thousand five hundred contacts for a control group and for the test team, and we had a four point top box lift in ratings just from that two two hour training. They went from an eighty four to an eighty eight top box, which is a very significant lift for not very much investment. So you can really move the needle by rather inexpensive delighters. So with that, let me turn it over to Bonnie to talk a little bit about, some of the search analytics you can do. Yeah. So, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, the the strategies and ways that we can measure the the customer experience and and why search is important. So I wanted to just give a couple of examples of search analytics that that can be leveraged to help inform the strategy. So here you can see, this is just the basic search, relevance, dashboard that can highlight the areas that you know, these are the areas that are being searched, average click rank, things of that nature, really helping you understand performance. On the next slide, a couple more examples of different types of dashboards that you can pull, you know, looking at what what searches are leading to case deflection or, to case creation. What it what is leading to case deflection? You know, where are the gaps for your support agents as well as where are the constant gaps on the website. You know, who's contributing to content. So when you think about search analytics, I think it's very easy to think it's just click rank or it's just, you know, what where I am or what people are searching for. But you can really get a lot more insights around performance. You can look at where they're struggling, and you can see the intent behind the searches as well. So just a couple of examples of what those, dashboards can look like at least from a Coveo perspective. And then the thing I would add add add to it also would be if you could plug in the satisfaction survey data. And, again, just using the one question where you had the opportunity to say, and by the way, I was delighted, that then really would tell you where you're being successful in delighting. And the critical thing in getting, representatives to delight people is getting the supervisor to give them enough rope to go out and do it because supervisors are scared to death of people getting creative. But in fact, that's where you really create delight. And you can give people guidelines. Southwest Airlines actually has a manual on the two hundred crazy things you can do on an airplane to to entertain people. So people aren't making all that stuff up on their own. But, give them some guidance and then let them go do stuff. And every once in a while, something won't work, but that's fine. So, in terms of, final comments, number one, you wanna highlight search at the top of the help page as well as on all the other pages. We talked about putting stuff on the home page, and basically tell people your answer is in search or, you know, have a type ahead with how can we help. You want to continuously improve the education and onboarding that you're doing, so that you are continually answering more and more of the questions so that people don't need to actually do as much search. For each item anticipated, give them the answer, but then anticipate the next as well as, delighting them or injecting some kind of an emotional connection into it. Now humor is something that that really can work very well. People are leery of it, but humor works probably in in ninety to ninety five percent of times. And so what if you slightly offend someone? One of my favorite examples is at, Intuit. When you're doing your turbo tax, if you put down that you have a two year old toddler, they will come back and say, is that toddler making enough money that they're supporting themselves? Now that's a silly question, but it's fun. It it's injecting a little bit of humor into a rather drug you know, dismal dismal task. You then want to analyze satisfaction by type of search issue and figure out where you have ineffective answers and work to figure out how can we make that more effective. Your best consultants on this are your frontline representatives. And then as I said, inject personality and delight into the responses and into the information. And you may get pushback from your compliance and lawyer types. What we've done in those situations is said, yeah. You're probably right wrong. Let's do a pilot test. Humorous. Let's try it in with one team for a month. And we've never had a pilot test fail. And in many cases, the lawyers all of a sudden say, hey. You know, that actually was a good idea. So, lawyers, in fact, are trainable, at least in most cases. So with that, I hope that we have stimulated your thinking, and we have a few minutes for questions or complaints. We always solicit complaints. And, again, if you're interested in industry specific data, either send me an email or or go to our website, and we would be happy to provide you with that and the delight study and the national rage study if you're interested in that. So with that, I'll turn it back over to Bonnie. Great. Thank you so much, John, for that that great overview. And, you you know, one of the things that that you mentioned had me thinking a little bit. You talked a little bit about how cross sell can act actually, improve that experience for the customer. And then later, we talked about support, and I kind of tied the two together, you know, cross selling support solutions where, you know, a customer comes with one issue. You have the analytics that show that, you know, people with the same issue, maybe they encounter this other issue. That gives you an opportunity to kind of cross sell your support, and give them the the proactive help that they'll need next as well. Exactly. And and, eighty percent of the time, your guess is gonna be correct. And the fact that you're being helpful, you are, well, at at Hewlett Packard, they basically found that for every two minutes of education that you did, you save ten minutes of subsequent calls down the road. And and one of the other things they would do is they would say, okay. Let me show you on the website where you could have found that. And here's what your next question is. That's probably your next one. And in that situation, they had about a four hundred percent return in terms of reducing, subsequent, issues from that customer. Alright. So I'll go ahead and take some questions. If you have any questions, feel free to drop them into the chat or the q and a portion of the screen. We do have a couple of minutes to answer those questions. The first question, John, I'll I'll ask you, you know, how does NPS fit into these, you know, success metrics? Two thirds of the world is now using Net Promoter Score, and and I have very explicitly not been a huge fan of it because in in fact, it's based on sort of on some of the research we did in in way back three three decades ago that says that the willingness to recommend is probably the right question. Yes. I'm I'm not very satisfied, or I am satisfied, but I wouldn't recommend you. So, what we find is recommend is a good question. The problem is the way the analysis for net promoter is done is that you take the nines and tens. It will give you a nine or a ten and subtract the sixes and blows, and what you're left with is the net number of promoters, which is fine. But you've left out the sevens and eights, which in many businesses is forty, fifty, sometimes even sixty percent of the total marketplace has given you a seven or an eight. So you are ignoring those. And Reichheld, the the author of NPS, called that the, the passives. They're not passive because what they're saying is, well, you're barely adequate. That's not a ringing endorsement. And so we think that, it's a very blunt instrument. Now in last November's Harvard Business Review, Reichheld came out with Net Promoter three point o. And there, he said, okay. Well, talk to your accounting department, and they will tell you how much revenue you have earned from customers you got from word-of-mouth referrals. And so you now have earned revenue earned growth revenue, I think, is the technical term, that you can put with your net promoter. But the problem is you you have a very broad satisfaction metric and a very broad statement of revenue, but I don't know exactly what action I have to take to earn this much of that revenue. So it's not granular. And that's the real challenge with that promoter is you have to have customer loyalty impact and the measurement of your the impact of your action to say how much revenue did we get by fixing this particular problem. So you need to be at the granular problem or issue level, which is where search tends to be, to have actionable data that you can then tie to financial metrics that the CFO is actually gonna pay attention to. I'm sorry. That was a long winded answer. But No. That was great. Thank you. Another question. Coveo has talked a lot about case deflection in the past. Are you suggesting this not be a measure? So I would say definitely, you know, no. That's not the point here. I think the point here is really, you know, we have put so much focus on case deflection that for some organizations, it has gotten to the point where they're they're actually making it more difficult to reach them. They're removing their phone number from the website. They're they're not allowing you to talk to them. And when we put put that much focus on case deflection, that's when we start losing out on a lot of opportunity for that better experience. Now from a case deflection perspective, yes, one hundred percent, we wanna deflect cases that are easy to solve, that, you know, we have content for, that we may not necessarily, you know, wanna spend a lot of time trying to help the customer through, you know, things like password changes, for example. So case deflection is an important metric. It's just one of many. And so I think the the point here is really, you know, looking at the whole ecosystem of what that customer experience is and which levers are important to pull, as you're trying to improve that experience. John, do you wanna add anything there? Yeah. I I I think you're you're exactly right. That that, yes, case deflection is certainly important, but that's the small potatoes as opposed to the real payoff of the revenue enhancement by going beyond just just case deflection. And and in fact, one of your clients, AARP, has found that they inherently, they believe that email is less efficient than chat. And so they actually, if I send you an email, they actually will send me back a statement saying, hey. You know, we're happy to do an email with you, but we really think you should try chat. And they have gotten, almost completely out of the email business. They've reduced their email workload by about ninety percent because they have found that chat is more efficient, and people don't tend to run on for paragraphs that then have to be read and and interpreted. So, but all those metrics are useful. It's just we're saying, look at some of these others that actually are implying bigger amounts of money and top line revenue that gets the finance and CFO's attention because that's really the audience you you need to dazzle. Absolutely. Alright. Well, thank you all so much for attending. Thank you, John, for the great presentation. Really appreciate your participation. Everyone will be receiving the recording after the session within twenty four hours. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you, everyone. K. Great. Thank you. And, if anyone is interested in a free copy of either of my books, just send me an email. And for for this short time period, we'll be happy to make one available. So thank you very much. Thing. Thank you. Bye.